dimanche 7 décembre 2014

Spike's World: The Problem of Evil

In addition to the purely human forms of evil we are all familiar with, Haven has three specific forms of Evil that are notable, and as part of my general cultural series of Haven, I will address them, and their role in the various societies of Haven, here.



The three are:

Necromancy

Diabolism

Chaos



In short we have Necromancy, which is 'Unholy', defying the will of the Gods.

Diabolism: Or the Profane, worshipping/serving that which is outside the Gods.

And Chaos: The Blasphemy which seeks to undo the Gods



With regards to language, in Haven each Evil is its own catagory of sin, so one would not refer to a Necromancer as practicing profane arts or committing blasphemy. Demons are not viewed as "unholy" creatures. Casual usage may, of course, blur the lines, and not every language on Haven would so distinguish varieties of evil as we have here, though the Nornsan languages do so (and clearly, as Nornsan cultures tend to put the Sun in their pantheon, and the Sun is the ultimate Judge and giver of laws, thus He tends to distinguish the exact nature of the sins against the Divine...)



Necromancy in Haven is, as long established, the study of arts meant to transcend death. It is the pursuit of personal immortality. Animating the dead is not in itself Necromancy, though summoning dead souls to animate corpses IS, and is a common means of exploring the boundaries between death and life for Necromancers. Most mortals have little concern for living necromancers as a general rule, as by itself the study is mostly harmless. Once the dead come back, however, there is a problem as the Undead hunger for the life they do not have, in one form or another. Compounding the issue is that many necromancers have a morbid curiousity, and more than a few commit unthinkable crimes in their pursuit of knowledge. Some become murder junkies, exploring the boundaries by watching the souls of their victims, others dig up corpses for study... and depending on the necromancer that study can involve any number of disgusting practices.



As a general rule, the Nornsan kingdoms ban the practice entirely, and may even hunt down and kill necromancers with some zeal. Necromancers are burned alive in the north, with the belief that the horrific death will weaken their souls in the afterlife, restricting their ability to come back. Of course, burning people alive is something of a fashion in those regions, so not much is thought of the practice in general.



In contrast the Tenebrians treat Necromancers as simply an outgrowth of wizardry or sorcery... its just another school of magic to them, with its own curious traits. Magic is more pervasive in the Tenebrian kingdoms, though more advanced in the Southron Nornsa kingdoms. The Tenebrian Empire doesn't even treat the Undead as necessarily evil, though the are frequently used as villains in popular entertainments. Of course, it has long been noted that the Tenebrians do not put much stock in the sanctity of life, and the powerful have always been able to prey upon the less powerful for their own purposes. If such predation is excessive, then the Gods will send a Hero to eliminate the unjust ruler, as they always have.



The Reve will have nothing to do with Necromancers. Given that their religious practices are entirely focused on placating the Sea, and She is known to covet the souls of the Dead, this is hardly surprising. Bringing a Necromancer on board a ship is practically begging the Sea to send a storm or two.



The Spada have no truck with Necromancy, but then selfishness of any sort is viewed as Evil, and intellectual pursuits are viewed with some suspicion in this entirely martial society.



Curiously: Despite having the Sun as a patron god, the Heshites have a long culture of Necromancy, with some rituals rumored to predate the Titans. It should be noted here that Heshite Necromancers are generally not pursuing Necromancy for their own immortality, but for the immortality of the nobility. While clearly a Heshite Necromancer has more than enough occult knowledge to return from death personally, they rarely chose to do so, which may be why Death rarely sends a Handmaiden to kill one. Those who 'benefit' from Heshite Necromancy generally are far weaker magically than most undead, while retaining somewhat more personality... and worse, most have large retinues of lesser undead servants created for them from their once living servants and slaves. Depending on which Cult in in ascendance at the time, the Undead of Hesh are powerful, shadowy leaders of the Kingdom, or monsterous villains preying upon the living. They view themselves as 'above' edicts of the living King, and freely associate with illegal cults, such as the Black Sand. It is rumored that they follow a truly ancient undead, the First King, who is said to have last drawn breath before the Titans arose.



The Great Weakness of Heshite Undead is simply that the rituals used to bring them back only work once. Once a Heshite Undead is 'slain' a second time they do not come back, unlike many undead. They are far more tied to their mortal remains as a result. This does grant them some measure of protection from the wrath of the Sun, but they are wise enough not to tempt him.



A similar practice occurs in the Dragon Desert, though in that case the beneficiary is almost always the necromancer himself, or those he wishes to serve him in undeath. As these are true necromancers, they may seek to return after a second death, though without their mortal remains they are greatly weakened compared to other Necromantic Undead. Generally the Dragon Desert Necromancers are far more open power players, and many are students of sorcery or wizardry as well. They have a coveted secret that protects them from Death's Handmaidens, but not from Death himself. They also tend to benefit from selling their services to wealthy men who fear death, though the unspoken price of these services is much higher than commonly believed.



Curiously: Paravail famously lacks laws against Necromancy, yet no necromancer of note has appeared in that city for a thousand years, and undead are almost unknown... though a few of the more mindless ghouls do occasionally surface before being put down. Why this is so is unknown, but the closeness of the Sea (Paravail is a port after all) may have something to do with it.



While it is believed the the Dwarves lack the selfishness to practice necromancy, this is not actually true. Dwarves, as a culture, reject such selfishness, but in individual dwarves it may appear as commonly as in Men. Such dwarves are frequently exiled, and among these exiles one can find dwarven necromancers. While in general Dwarves make poor wizards, those exiles who survive can find truly ancient and dark secrets in the deep underground spaces, making them worthy of the title.



The elves, having a sort of true immortality generally don't bother with necromancy. that said, a few older elves do fear death to misadventure and take up the study. Having potentially hundreds or thousands of years of study makes them truly formidable. Others may take it up out of boredom and curiousity, which does not make them any less dangerous. Elvish Necromancers generally welcome the arrival of a Handmaiden, as it gives them an opportunity to study Divinity, and their arrogance generally assures they believe they can win against a servant of the Gods (and, it should be said: Some do). That said: Whatever the reason for Elvish Immortality, it has some notable effects on Elvish Necromancers. Namely: Death rarely intervenes, and never personally, in Elvish Necromancers. Only the Elves know what happens to Elvish souls on death, or even if they have souls, and in general Elvish Necromancers learn little, if anything, from other necromancers... and vice versa. It is a truly alien area of study.



Another notable form of Necromancy is Goblin Necromancy. While no Goblin in ten thousand years has been able to focus on the long term well enough to worry about death, there are a tiny handful of pre-curse Goblins that still reside deep in the earth. Their hunger for life, as with all undead, is magnifed by the Curse, but they lack the fractured racial memory madness of their living kin. Each of these ancient and terrible monsters is known to the Dwarves by name. They are demigods, powerful beyond measure, and they never need fear Sun or Sea, as neither is found in teh lightless depths.



It seems to be a unique feature of Necromantic knowledge, that artifacts and rituals of Necromancy are rarely truly lost. Misplaced, perhaps, but never lost. Like most forms of 'Magic', older artifacts are more powerful and more dangerous, but unlike normal magics, Necromantic artifacts seem to resist the alchemical force of Entropic Decay, just as mortal necromancers defy death. Perversely: While things lost to the Sea tend to stay lost (for she is a jealous and possessive Goddess), artifacts of the Necromantic Arts quite often slip her grasp. Some believe this is deliberate on her part, for She is eager to claim the souls of the Undead, for they are the only ones she can claim that don't come to her willingly (all sailors are said to give their Souls to her by choosing a life on the Sea... she claims them as she will, in due time or more immediately). Thus it is in recent days that rituals from the time of the First Men, or earlier, have begun to surface in the darker corners of the world.





On the Arts Profane:



In the earliest days, when Haven was still being formed, the Demons came out of Chaos. They were like, and unlike the Gods, and while they had no ability to create the world, as the Gods did, they coveted it for themselves. Thus the God's War began, and for the first time War came to Haven. Then the first God and the first Demon were slain, and Death came to the world, and from the corpses of the fallen were made the Great Barrier, Time and all manner of things. The Gods and the Demons were in awe of what they had done, horrified, and thus a great truce was struck, and the Demons retreated to the far side of Haven to make their own world as best they could.



A fine myth for children, perhaps? But there are seeds of truth there. The Great Treaty that binds the Demons to the far side of Haven, the Demonic Realm, is a real thing, a legal compact... with all that implies. A demon Summoner, often without understanding it, studies that legal compact to find and exploit its flaws and loopholes.



To understand: Demons are not of the World. They are alien to it, and as frequently hostile to its manifestations. The Gods came together in cooperation and harmony to create Haven out of Chaos, the Demons embody disruption and disharmony, at least as far as Mortals are concerned.



That is not entirely accurate, however. To be clear: The Gods WON the God War. Had they lost they would have been exiled back to Chaos, or destroyed outright. By the standards of the Gods, Demons are Chaos personified, but while that is a fine metaphor, it is also highly inaccurate. Demons are intensely hierarchal and legalistic... though whether this is innate to their nature or imposed upon them by the Treaty is unclear. If it were otherwise, the Treaty would never have worked. The Demons don't subvert the Treaty, arguably they can't.



Thus everything a Diabolist does is technically legal in the eyes of Heaven. From a divine standpoint, a Diabolist doesn't put his soul at risk by summoning demons, and no divine law truly applies (more on that later!).



Thus, demon summoning is primarily a problem from a Mortal perspective. It may be likened to creating unlicensed thermonuclear reactors: Sure, it may work and even be useful, but you're just as likely to blow up the city as you are to catch ghosts. Thus, in every civilized land there are a great number of legal restrictions on demon summoning, ranging from the absolutely forbidden, to being highly regulated for official business only. In more savage lands, such as east of the Pepper Savannahs (And I WILL look the name of this region up, I swear!), demons are openly worshipped as Gods, and not studying diabolism, to one degree or another, is akin to madness, or at least profound weakness.



Demons are fairly simple to summon with the right knowledge, and since that knowledge is a part of Divine Law, its pretty hard to outright expunge it without destroying the Treaty itself (which... honestly, the Gods would object to pretty strenuously. Never mind the difficulty in trying to destroy something like that as an act!). Further compounding the issue is that Demons may respond to mortal prayers as the Gods do, and may send clues to desperate seekers for the chance to go to the mortal realm.



Depending on their intelligence, demons desire two things: Souls, which are consumed for personal power, and creature comforts of the 'god's realm'. As noted, Demons are not terribly good world builders, and the Demon Realm lacks in 'nice things', so collecting goods from the Mortal Realm is something of a status symbol and a luxury for Demons, at least the smarter ones. Not all 'smart' demons care about that, of course.



And since the demon summoning rituals pretty much JUST bring a demon to the mortal realm, with some caveats, its up to the Diabolist to offer the demon reasons not to just take what it wants while it can. Which means most demon summoners stock up on human sacrifices and stolen goods ahead of time. If the demon isn't satisfied, or the wrong demon shows up (such as summoning a Demonic Prince), pretty much everyone in the surrounding area is going to be very, very unhappy.



Mind you: The Treaty is a pretty long and complex document by mortal standards, and even the most accomplished Diabolist only knows a fraction of it. There are lots and lots of rules and addendums that apply. Demons, of course, tend to prefer the most open ended rituals, the ones that give them the upper hand. Sadly for them, many of those rituals... while easy to perform... require exotic ingredients or timetables. As a general rule, most demons cannot remain in the mortal realm beyond the Sun's transition over the Horizon in either direction. Even more: Many Demons will not willingly walk under the Sun's Light no matter when they are summoned, so the general rule is that Demons are summoned at night, and must return to the Demon Realm at Dawn. Those rare souls who learn to fight demons are, unwittingly, studying a unique form of Diabolism... or rather a different portion of the Great Treaty, whereupon they learn the rules by which a Demon can be banished back to its realm. Naturally, the Sun is a favored patron, for though He is apparently neutral about Demons in general, He is the guy who wrote the Great Treaty, and the expert on all matters of divine law.



Now on to cultural specifics: Once again Nornsa leads the way in restrictions against Diabolism. It is viewed as Evil regardless of who does it, a corrupt and 'foul' practice. The wilder Northron Kingdoms are slightly more forgiving, and generally shun practicioners, but so long as they stay far from decent people they are left alone to destroy themselves. A notable exception is Avante, which lies between to the two halves of the old Nornsan Empire, and was never fully subdued even in the time of Vasilimatu. The Avante believe that every good wizard should know the basics of Diabolism, and expect any practicioner of magic to have some familiarity with it. On the other hand, learning Diabolisim without years of magical study ahead of time is viewed as rank foolishness, so a 'pure' Diabolist is scorned and usually taught a fatal lesson by his 'betters'. This attitude towards Diabolism is one long standing grievance between the Avante and the Nornsans.



The Spada treat Diabolism as a form of War Magic, with highly regimented schools of study, summoners working in concert using fully tested and approved methods to summon the appropriate demons at the appropriate times. They generally restrict themselves to the more savage and bestial species of demons, unleashing them as warbeasts on their enemies. They are rumored to have a compact with at least one Demon Prince, whom they will summon if ever the walls of Spada are breached. If true this makes them the most accomplished Demonologists in all of Haven.



As a rule the Kra have no truck with Demons, though legends have a number of demonic figures, both good and bad, in Kra history. Heroes who have trained with, or alternatively beaten, Demon Warriors are reknown for their supernatural skill and so forth. Given their general proximity to the demon blighted lands (east of teh Savannah...), it may very well be that some more permanently summoned Demons have wandered Kra territories for a time, and Demons have done stranger things than open martial arts academies for mortals.



Tenebrians, once again, tend to view Diabolism as simply another magical practice. Demons are horrible monsters, but the men and women who can control them and make them do their bidding are respected and feared. What is legal and illegal is often a matter of personal power, as always. Of course, as it is often rumored that the feared Tenebrian Warhorses are demonic, or part demonic in nature, and the mysterious Thousand have been rumored to be demonic as well only clouds the issue.



Hesh, however, will have no truck with Demon or demonologists. Any number of illegal cults that practice diabolism spring up, many are exiled to the deserts, or destroyed outright. That said: Hesh is a place of secrets and lies, and power is the ultimate coin. If the Moon cult can use necromancers, the Sun Cult can oppose them with Diabolists without much guilt.



The cities of the Dragon Desert are frequently cited as hotbeds of diabolism. Magic is the coin of the realm, and Demons are very nearly magic embodied, from a certain point of view. Many a demon has been summoned only to be rendered into parts by a diabolist in this part of the world.



Dwarves will not deal with Diabolists any more than they will necromancers. Given that the dark places under Haven have many portals to the Demon Realm, this is understandable... and it is just as understandable why so many exiled dwarven diabolists are so very, very good at what they do.



While Goblins tend to lack the focus to study magic, occasionally the racial memories they possess will include just enough diabolist rituals for a goblin to successfully summon demons. Of all the races of Mortals, Goblins are closest to understanding Demonic nature, due to their cursed hunger, and goblins have no compunction about sacrificing souls... provided the meat is left to them, so goblin demon summoners tend to be very successful at bringing up the more bloodthirst demons, and surviving the attempt, than reasonable.



Elves: As with anything, elves will take up demonology as a hobby, or as a mania. Elves view Demons as a sort of alternative God, and thus being a Demon is a 'skill', similar to Divinity. Thus Elves tend to summon Demons to understand them, rather than for reasons of power. Their long lives and great patience... and their tendency to study things throughly... generally offsets their arrogance to some degree. Any number of elven Diabolists have discovered the hard way that 'becoming a demon' may mean being eaten by a demon, but just as many have performed such bizarre and potent acts as transfusing demonic blood into their bodies. An Elven Diabolist doesn't summon demons to do his dirty work, he summons them to become them, on his own terms.



It is important to note the existance of the 'lost tribe' the Deal'y'reath, who are said to reside entirely in the Demon Realm. Clearly they are all powerful diabolists, in addition to whatever other abilities they possess. Some have argued that the apotheosis of their leader was an act of profane rather than divine nature, but very very few could say for certain.



Dragons: while they rarely give themselves over to the study of magic, Dragons do occasionally take up Diabolism. Given their rather fearsome capabilities and appetites, they are as likely to eat the demon as they are to get eaten. Given the nature of Demonic Flesh, this makes such Dragons rather warped, profane if you will.



Halflings: Wild halflings don't bother with diabolism, city halflings don't care enough about the rules to not bother with it. However, some have suggested that Halflings have trouble with understanding the legalese required to be a diabolist, which is why they are so rare. this is viewed as frank racism by some halfling organizations.



Fortress Elves: Pretty much universally study diabolism, as demons make great slaves, and demonic concubines are something 'worthy' of them.



Orcs: Orcish Diabolists are rare, as it seems to be an urban phenomenon and the Orcs don't have many cities, and aren't welcome in the cities of other races, with notable exceptions. Orcs in human cities tend to adopt human mores and attitudes in the main, and have never been prone to studying magic. While legendarily incapable of performing magic, other than divine miracles, orcish wizards are a fact of life, if rare. Orcs do tend to be far more tolerant than other races of diabolism in general, and respect those who have mastered it, and mock those who fall prey to it's dangers.



Noteworthy: The first great Orcish city, long ago destroyed by the elves, was also a great Diabolist ritual, banishing the so called Ice Demons back to the Demonic Realms. Sadly, no records of the nature of Ice Demons remains, as the Elves never actually entered the Northlands, preferring long range doomsday magic available to them in that age, and the Orcs lost all their records.



A unique facet of Orcish Diabolism is their tendency to make a soul-pact with a favored demon. The orc severs a part of his body and gives it to the Demon, ritually giving a piece of his soul to the Demon. In return the Demon ritually gives a piece of its soul to its 'master', often replacing the lost part. This allows the demon to return to the mortal realm whenever it wishes, and gives the orc some power in return. Reputedly, the Orc becomes part of that demon's lineage, and such Diabolists have their souls enter the Demon Realm upon death, becoming an actual Demon, metaphysically.



The Wastes of Irem, often called the Demon Wastes, are said to no longer fall under the Eyes of Heaven, and demons wander freely there (hence the name). There is some truth to that, but the Treaty doesn't technically allow it, so those Demons who take advantage of it are committing a crime in the eyes of Demonic Law. That is no small thing. By demonic standards they are outlaws, exiles and madmen. At least one Demonic Prince is said to be in residence, which only confuses the issue (since technically no Prince could break Demonic Law by their very nature... its a bit complex, requiring a deep understanding of the Demonic Hierarchy and Lineage system, and how that functions to keep lesser demons 'honest'...).



Lastly: Verra the Demon Goddess, who is both Divine and Profane at the same time. One of her 'divine' functions is the Goddess of Enigmas, and accordingly her history is unknowable. She is the plotter, the deciever and so forth. She is openly worshipped in Tenebria... placated might be the better term, and is known everywhere. Diabolists often place statues of her in their summoning space as a reminder to the demons they summon, for she is feared and respected by the demons. It is unclear if she is equal to, or superior to, a Demon Prince in their Hierarchy, as it is also unclear if she has a proper lineage, or merely claims one. Oddly, she is well disposed towards Humanity, and most of the Mortal Races, and is especially kind to the Orcs for reasons known only to her. However, it must be noted that her kindness can be rather... sharp edged, for she loves plots and trickery. She does not like Elves, though this tends to manifest in pranks and tricks rather than savagry, and she finds most dwarves to be boring and simple minded... though one legend has a dwarf challenging her to a game of chess, and winning, in exchange for a boon.





The Blasphemy: Chaos



The Undead defy the Divine Law, the Demon stands outside it, but Chaos is the Eternal Enemy. The Gods Created Haven to escape the ever roiling sea of Chaos, now known as the Greater Sea of Chaos to those few who dare understand this much, and the Demons fled to Haven after them. Without Haven the Gods would have eventually been absorbed into Chaos. Indeed, Chaos threatens to Erode the very fabric of Haven to this day. Only the Great Barrier keeps Chaos at bay, and the Great Engine serves to reweave the fabric of Reality constantly, undoing the erosion as fast as it is done.



Chaos is both sentient and mindless, as it is all things. It is proud of its children for defying it, even as it hates what they have done. It is unfathomable to all but the most powerful Gods and Demons, to look upon it is to court madness.



It is, in short The Enemy.



And yet, there are fools and madmen who would worship it, who would seek to tear open the fabric of reality and join with the ever seething sea.



Let there be note:



Chaos Magic is not the same as Chaos Worship, though it is often treated as the same thing. Chaos Magic is Elder Sorcery, it is the mortal attempting the Divine. Done successfully and skillfully it can create the world anew. Done badly and it can unmake reality for miles in any given direction. The Lesser Sea of Chaos, at the heart of the Wastes of Irem, was the worst such disaster known, when the Alchemists of Irem attempted to use their Elder Sorcery techniques with the World Egg, the Omphalos they found... the husk of a dead god from before Time itself.



And yet, for all that: Chaos Magic tends to add to reality, a net gain. Mortals were not meant to use such power, which is where it often goes awry. Mortals CAN'T do such magic without very specialized and rare materials, which the Gods hide away whenever they can. Demons are a bit more casual about it, but even they will not assist Mortals with such a dangerous task.



The Barrier is flawed, as it has always been flawed. It must, because one face of it must always touch the very stuff it protects against, so Chaos wears at it, tears at it, rips and rents the very fabric of it. Monsters born of a reality vastly unlike our own squeeze through those tears. Not all of them are truly loyal to their maker, but none can be said to be friendly to Reality.



Though it has no mind that a mortal can understand, Chaos whispers to the mad, offering them power... offering things only madmen could understand or desire...



We claim such men worship Chaos, that they prostrate themselves before it, treating it as a God. There are such men, blinded by perverse philosophy, seeing Chaos as the ultimate God, above all others, but those men are merely fools, dangerous in small measure. No, the madmen may serve Chaos, but they don't worship it. In a very real way, they embody it. They are, for the span of their short and miserable lives, Chaos itself, walking the world of Haven, seeking to unmake it.



One of the tools they use to accomplish this is Chaos Magic, deliberately misused. Indeed, the tools of Elder Sorcery seem to spring from such madmen, as does knowledge of the craft. Others seek to tear apart the Barrier itself, or to seek out the secret of the Great Engine, so they can unmake it. Given enough time they can challenge even the Gods, though they oddly remain vulnerable to mere mortal heroes even at their peak.



Some, perhaps slightly more sane, simply bring new monsters into Reality, much as a Diabolist brings Demons to the world. Eventually those chaos summoners succumb to the true madness of Chaos, the monsters becoming the means to an end, and that end is the destruction of Haven itself.



Clearly, no society, no culture tolerate Chaos Worship. Not even the most savage and primitive can seek the unmaking of reality, though 'cultists' do occasionally come together in secret. Chaos may manifest itself as an alien and unfathomable God, worshipped by fools as it leads them to madness that serves its own ends. Perhaps such manifestations are in fact new gods, existing outside Reality for a time, though Time only exists in reality itself.



I will not utter those Blasphemous Names that are known, but perhaps they would be familiar to you?



Of course, one cannot touch Chaos without being changed by it, corrupted by it. Just as the sorcerer channels chaos through his tools to avoid warping his flesh, the worshipper of Chaos becomes a twisted and inhuman being over time. Those who worship directly become increasingly alien, unique and terrible monsters in their own right, while those who worship a manifestation, an alien god, become twisted reflections of that god.



It is suggested that every mortal society that grows too powerful, too knowledgeable turns, ultimately, to Chaos so that they may become greater than the Gods. This Hubris leads the Gods to destroy them, as the betrayal of the Titans by their slaves was engineered by the Gods, and so too the destruction of Irem. Those who suggest that ignore, willfully or otherwise, that the destruction of Irem almost unmade all of reality itself.





Quite clearly, Evil may be said, on some level, to be that which exists outside the Gods. At least that is true of supernatural evil. In each case there is an agency, a force, at work that prevents knowledge of it from being completely expunged.



And yet: there are gods that may be viewed, casually, as evil. The Sea is often depicted as such, greedy and capricious, vindictive and cruel. Death is feared by many. Gods exist for all the troubles that plague mortals, be they wild beasts or terrible plagues*



Yet, in Haven, these things are not generally thought of as 'Evil'. Unwelcome, unpleasant, certainly... but not evil. They are part and parcel of the world, and of Gods. The Gods of various ills may be placated, one may negotiate with them. Indeed, even in the most 'modern' parts of Haven, the most relatable to our world, human life is far less sacred than we would like to believe. The Sun is not a 'good God', he demands his followers ritually die, in a painful and grueling fashion, so he may judge their worthiness to continue in his service. He almost destroyed the world once in a fit of pique. The Gods have no patheons, those are mortal creations to manage the mass of Gods that there are, and only a loose heirarchy, with no one god above all others.









* A noteworthy exception exists for the Four Horsemen, War, Famine, Pestilence and Death. War and Death came into being during the Gods War, and are not entirely aligned with the Gods themselves, though they are considered Divine. Famine and Pestilence are reputedly magical creations of the Titans, sort of doomsday weapons, which the Elves unleashed on the Dwarves because Elves are assholes. Thus disease and starvation are not technically divine ills, with their own gods, but weird godlike beings of mortal origin. Reputedly. It IS known that Famine and Pestilence are more akin to Death and War, metaphysically, than they are to other divine beings. Technically, however, the Horsemen aren't the four themselves, but their carefully chosen mortal agents. And yes, all four together have the power to unmake Haven. Death will claim everything, eventually. Even himself. He's just really polite and patient.





Spike's World: The Problem of Evil

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